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August1991

Canada Federal Carbon Dioxide CO2 Tax

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3 hours ago, bcsapper said:

China is positioning itself as a global climate leader, and its actions have an enormous impact on global greenhouse gas emissions. Discouragingly, a rise in coal consumption drove Chinese CO2 emissions to a new high in 2017, which will likely be exceeded again in 2018.

 

From your article.  Who wrote that?

You obviously did not read the whole article, but selected one line to make your point.  REad the whole thing and then get back to me.  

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4 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Whatevs, you can cling to your socialist centrally planned fantasies as you like, we are going to defeat you, without even breaking a sweat, we're not in this together, I am your enemy, you're not going to be dragging us anywhere,  but go ahead and impale yourself on that petard, I enjoy crushing leftists and their hare brained schemes, so this is going to be fun.

I welcome Climate Barbies like you, because not only is your environmentalist agenda going to be derailed, you'll take the entire leftist agenda down with you in a right wing revanchist backlash which will slaughter all your sacred cows.

Remember that I told you so, when it comes to pass.

I feel nothing but pity for you in your very dark place.  Good luck to you.

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35 minutes ago, Audrey Devlin said:

You obviously did not read the whole article, but selected one line to make your point.  REad the whole thing and then get back to me.  

I didn't read that article because I already know, from all the other reading, watching, listening, etc, what China's chances of reducing the planet's GHG gases are.  The quote was too perfect to ignore, though.

You didn't comment on the 300 coal fired power plants China is currently constructing for other countries.

 

Edit>  I went back and skimmed over it because I was curious as to how you arrived at your conclusion.  I sure saw the words “highly insufficient” a lot.

Edited by bcsapper

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19 minutes ago, Audrey Devlin said:

I feel nothing but pity for you in your very dark place.  Good luck to you.

You are in the dark place,  I am the light of reason who rightly marks you as a fool.   

Stop wasting our time and money with idiotic self righteous childish crusades.

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4 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

...and so is Canada, which has not reduced GHG emissions as much as the U.S. going way back to the massive Kyoto FAIL.

Vancouver terminals are the single largest exporters of coal from North America:

 

 

1124_biz_wire_westshore.jpg?quality=80&s

 

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/yes-anti-pipeline-vancouver-really-is-north-americas-largest-exporter-of-coal

 

And in typical Canadian fashion the "solution" is a pointless money grab which will have no effect on the climate whatsoever, it's just more virtue signalling.

It's like dealing with children.  

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3 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

 

And in typical Canadian fashion the "solution" is a pointless money grab which will have no effect on the climate whatsoever, it's just more virtue signalling.

It's like dealing with children.  

Ms McKenna added the following material to her Facebook page together with two pictures - one of burning Albertan forests and one of Jason Kenney looking happily at the sky:

"As families are forced from their homes by fires, including one that's grown to be more than three times the size of Edmonton, my thoughts go out to everyone affected. We'll keep taking action and fighting climate change with Albertans and all Canadians — for our environment, for our health, and for our future."

Her post points at an article titles "As Alberta Burns, Jason Kenney Repeals Carbon Tax"

So by "taking action" Ms McKenna means "paying carbon tax".

She is OK with putting another 2,000km gas, oil or bitumen pipeline on the map.   She is fine with the deforestation going on over the Coastal mountains.   She is totally fine with bringing another 300,000 Indians or Chinese to Canada next year and finding them jobs.  She is also fine with companies polluting our waters and dumping toxic sludge in pristine rivers and glaciers.

She is fine with all dead animals on the roads and railways or poisoned beside tailing ponds.   She is fine with increase air pollution by more airplanes and helicopters in the sky. She's perfectly fine with increased levels of noise pollution even on Saturdays.    Of course she is, the bitch has no clue what she is doing as she has no environmental degree or even basic knowledge to back up her ministerial post.

All she can come up with is "PAY YOUR CARBON TAX and LET US DO THAT MAGIC FOR YOU!.  YOU WILL BE SAVED"

No McKenna, I do not think so.

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9 hours ago, cougar said:

Ms McKenna added the following material to her Facebook page together with two pictures - one of burning Albertan forests and one of Jason Kenney looking happily at the sky:

"As families are forced from their homes by fires, including one that's grown to be more than three times the size of Edmonton, my thoughts go out to everyone affected. We'll keep taking action and fighting climate change with Albertans and all Canadians — for our environment, for our health, and for our future."

Her post points at an article titles "As Alberta Burns, Jason Kenney Repeals Carbon Tax"

So by "taking action" Ms McKenna means "paying carbon tax".

She is OK with putting another 2,000km gas, oil or bitumen pipeline on the map.   She is fine with the deforestation going on over the Coastal mountains.   She is totally fine with bringing another 300,000 Indians or Chinese to Canada next year and finding them jobs.  She is also fine with companies polluting our waters and dumping toxic sludge in pristine rivers and glaciers.

She is fine with all dead animals on the roads and railways or poisoned beside tailing ponds.   She is fine with increase air pollution by more airplanes and helicopters in the sky. She's perfectly fine with increased levels of noise pollution even on Saturdays.    Of course she is, the bitch has no clue what she is doing as she has no environmental degree or even basic knowledge to back up her ministerial post.

All she can come up with is "PAY YOUR CARBON TAX and LET US DO THAT MAGIC FOR YOU!.  YOU WILL BE SAVED"

No McKenna, I do not think so.

Sign of weakness, Team Climate Barbie is who we thought they were, corrupt, incompetent and not very clever, so now they are getting desperate as the Scheercucks have closed the gap on them.

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The saving grace of this cohort of Liberals is that they truly are the most vacuous bunch of Himbos and Bimbos yet.

Ralph Goodale is about the only one who has any competence, the rest of them are a danger to themselves.

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35 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

1. The saving grace of this cohort of Liberals is that they truly are the most vacuous bunch of Himbos and Bimbos yet.

2. Ralph Goodale is about the only one who has any competence, the rest of them are a danger to themselves.

1. Yes, Andrew Scheer is such a monumental high achiever and brilliant visionary.  I guess you didn't say that, but seriously any of the major leaders are interchangeable.

2. Safety Minister ?  Ok then...

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10 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Yes, Andrew Scheer is such a monumental high achiever and brilliant visionary.  I guess you didn't say that, but seriously any of the major leaders are interchangeable.

2. Safety Minister ?  Ok then...

Oh I despise Scheer  far more than I despise Trudeau, nothing is worse than a traitor to your own, Trudeau at least believes the nonsense he peddles methinks.

So long as you have the courage of your convictions, I can respect that, even if an adversary.

I certainly hated Communism with a passion, but I always respected the Soviet troops on the other side of the Trace.

Edited by Dougie93

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There is only one cult of the personality which I subscribe to, the Prime Minister is a nobody, the Queen is the country, I serve Elizabeth Windsor, Andrew Scheer is entirely expendable.

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Ms McKenna's new addition from today:

Environment and Climate Change Canada - Weather issued a tornado warning for Gatineau and the National Capital Region. Please stay safe, pay attention to instructions from authorities, and take cover immediately if threatening weather approaches

With this type of environment protection no wonder we start getting tornadoes in Gatineau.   Hope Parliament Hill is spared,  or should I hope for the opposite.

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Yes, McKenna - pollution is no longer free!   The Philippines and Malaysia should bill Canada for the mountain of plastic dumped in those countries! 

What does McKenna and her boss expect these countries to do with those plastics?  Dump them in the ocean? :lol:

Hypocrisy is the name of the game.  Carbon tax is just a ......money grab!

Edited by betsy
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1 hour ago, betsy said:

Yes, McKenna - pollution is no longer free!   The Philippines and Malaysia should bill Canada for the mountain of plastic dumped in those countries! 

What does McKenna and her boss expect these countries to do with those plastics?  Dump them in the ocean? :lol:

Hypocrisy is the name of the game.  Carbon tax is just a ......money grab!

Everything in Canada is just a money grab.

The entrenched interest unions, UNIFOR, PSAC, etc are a bottomless pit of extortion, the government and the unionized thugs are the same people.

Of course they are going to exploit the naive population by using Climate Doom as another rubric to funnel money to feather the nests of the bloated public sector leviathan which is eating the country down to the bone.

It's easy to do when the children are indoctrinated from a young age by the teachers, college academics and left wing media propaganda arm, it's fed to them like mother's milk, it's literally a totalitarian Self Licking Ice Cream Cone, Soviet Union Lite in North Cuba.

Just another reason not to bother having kids in Canada, because you will not be able to stop them from being indoctrinated by this totalitarian self perpetuating regime, if you try to teach them other than the state propaganda arm narrative, your own children will lash out at you like the Maoist Red Guard for being "fascist" or whatever.   Kindergarten to college, your kids are under the control of these leftist lunatics, you won't have any influence.

It's  a lost cause to try to fight it, easily two thirds of the country is totally indoctrinated, you can't undo a lifetime of indoctrination after the fact, it's basically going to collapse under its own weight at some point, all you can do is wait for the debt bubble global financial crisis which will bring Cuba North down by market forces.

It's obviously not as brutal and militarized as the Soviet Union was, but it is Soviet in its need to wall itself from the world and be run as a Potemkin Village and that in the end is what will be its undoing.

It's not going to be the end of the world,  but the bloated public sector Leviathan is basically going to eat itself to death, so bloated that it dies under its own girth.  It's consuming all real economic activity in Canada and it will just keep going until there isn't enough real economic activity to feed it anymore, like the rabbits in Australia, they just keep breeding and eat all the food and then there's a massive die off all at once.

Innovation, competition  and small business, which is the underlying basis of an economic food chain, the public sector unionized Leviathan in Canada deliberately destroys all that to protect itself, but in doing so it is destroying its own food chain.  And nobody can  restrain it, so there's no saving it from itself.

It's like that Kneedipper hack Yazmeen what's her face they always truck out on the CBC, she comes right out and states that Canada needs to destroy small business competition to prop the unions up, so it's not even like they are trying to deny it.

the indoctrinated population just takes whatever the CBC says as being the gospel, so the Leviathan doesn't have to hide its intentions, just invoke the Americans as a menace at the gates, and the Canadian Soviet will rally around the Liberal Party of Canada Flag and sing the Liberal Party of Canada song and praise the Socialist Workers Paradise to come.

Edited by Dougie93
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2 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Everything in Canada is just a money grab.

The entrenched interest unions, UNIFOR, PSAC, etc are a bottomless pit of extortion, the government and the unionized thugs are the same people.

Of course they are going to exploit the naive population by using Climate Doom as another rubric to funnel money to feather the nests of the bloated public sector leviathan which is eating the country down to the bone.

It's easy to do when the children are indoctrinated from a young age by the teachers, college academics and left wing media propaganda arm, it's fed to them like mother's milk, it's literally a totalitarian Self Licking Ice Cream Cone, Soviet Union Lite in North Cuba.

Just another reason not to bother having kids in Canada, because you will not be able to stop them from being indoctrinated by this totalitarian self perpetuating regime, if you try to teach them other than the state propaganda arm narrative, your own children will lash out at you like the Maoist Red Guard for being "fascist" or whatever.   Kindergarten to college, your kids are under the control of these leftist lunatics, you won't have any influence.

It's  a lost cause to try to fight it, easily two thirds of the country is totally indoctrinated, you can't undo a lifetime of indoctrination after the fact, it's basically going to collapse under its own weight at some point, all you can do is wait for the debt bubble global financial crisis which will bring Cuba North down by market forces.

It's obviously not as brutal and militarized as the Soviet Union was, but it is Soviet in its need to wall itself from the world and be run as a Potemkin Village and that in the end is what will be its undoing.

It's not going to be the end of the world,  but the bloated public sector Leviathan is basically going to eat itself to death, so bloated that it dies under its own girth.  It's consuming all real economic activity in Canada and it will just keep going until there isn't enough real economic activity to feed it anymore, like the rabbits in Australia, they just keep breeding and eat all the food and then there's a massive die off all at once.

Innovation, competition  and small business, which is the underlying basis of an economic food chain, the public sector unionized Leviathan in Canada deliberately destroys all that to protect itself, but in doing so it is destroying its own food chain.  And nobody can  restrain it, so there's no saving it from itself.

It's like that Kneedipper hack Yazmeen what's her face they always truck out on the CBC, she comes right out and states that Canada needs to destroy small business competition to prop the unions up, so it's not even like they are trying to deny it.

the indoctrinated population just takes whatever the CBC says as being the gospel, so the Leviathan doesn't have to hide its intentions, just invoke the Americans as a menace at the gates, and the Canadian Soviet will rally around the Liberal Party of Canada Flag and sing the Liberal Party of Canada song and praise the Socialist Workers Paradise to come.

Relax. For every Yazmeen NDPer there's also a Kevin O'Leary who has no time for the Libs and their "nanny snowflake" agenda as you like to call it.  Canada is in an enviable position when it comes to having a well-run society that strikes a healthy balance between unfettered Social Darwinist capitalism and the so-called nanny European cradle-to-grave support system.  I would recommend reading about human development indicators.  The top countries for quality of life and human development are almost always the Scandinavian countries, which have higher levels of taxation than Canada.  This country is not some communist enclave.  Canada will always have a progressive strain and this is a good thing.  The excesses on the left come mostly from naïve students and people who haven't really worked for a living.  I do think Trudeau has drunk too much campus Koolaid.  He irresponsibly empowered cultural revolutionaries, but Canadians are wizening to it.  The consensus among the electorate is that pipelines need to be built, carbon taxes must either removed or replaced by a less economically damaging climate initiative, and the PM must be harsher on China and trade.  Basically drop the naivety in a hurry.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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I'm relaxed, I mean, I despise these people for what they have turned Canada into, but as I do not rely on them for my prosperity they don't really harm me personally.

It's the Economic Nationalist rubes who will be crushed when the debt bubble finally corrects, whereas I'm going to be buying low when TSHTF.

I already made out like a bandit from 2008, QE has certainly been a big cash cow for those with capital, but it has simply made the debt bubble much bigger in the process.

Edited by Dougie93

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On 2/22/2007 at 10:06 PM, August1991 said:

Several posters raise good points in this thread. Let me start here.

First, any tax revenue would ideally be refunded to individuals in the province where it was collected or to the provincial government. A carbon tax would be tax-neutral and region-neutral. There is no question that this be another NEP.

In the Albertan context, a carbon tax should be seen as a provincial royalty on the use of the environment. The "royalty rate" or size of the carbon tax would be set by Ottawa but collected provincially and then possibly refunded the way Alaska refunds its oil royalties or the way Klein did it - a cheque to everyone.

Second, the point here is not to raise government revenue (although in a future world, I think governments would be wise to depend exclusively on environmental "rents"). The purpose is to charge people for the use of the environment.

All of the good things - carbon dioxide sequestration, new engine technologies, better heating systems, more efficient use of electricity, changes to electricity pricing - all will follow from a carbon dioxide emission tax. It is hard to know where best to put our efforts or what new technologies will work best. Bureaucrats can't decide these things, nor should they try.

People respond to incentives (or at least, they try to avoid taxes) and the trick is to set the incentive accurately. You can evade the CO2 tax by not putting CO2 into the atmosphere. IOW, tax evasion would become an environmentally friendly act.

Years later, I largely stand by this post above.

With this additional point:

It is easier to reduce a CO2 tax than change a government regulation.

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“If carbon pricing is so clearly within the tradition of conservatism, why do today’s conservative leaders reject it so strongly? There are only two credible answers: Either they aren’t really conservatives or they don’t really believe climate change is a serious problem.”

There is clearly another credible answer: they do not  think the carbon tax is a solution.

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14 hours ago, cougar said:

“If carbon pricing is so clearly within the tradition of conservatism, why do today’s conservative leaders reject it so strongly? There are only two credible answers: Either they aren’t really conservatives or they don’t really believe climate change is a serious problem.”

There is clearly another credible answer: they do not  think the carbon tax is a solution.

Third option; whatever the Canadian totalitarian left claims the purposes of something be, the real purpose is always to steal money in order to funnel it to bloated public sector entrenched interests, and so is always doomed to be a boondoggle to no good purpose in the end.

Whatever I may think of carbon pricing in theory, in practice; whatever the central planning nabobs of the Canadian left touches, will turn to shit, so they are not to be trusted on anything, Climate Change is neither here nor there, it's just a rubric they are seeking to use to bum rush the public into centralizing more power to the regime.  Same as all totalitarian regimes do. 

Case in point, as they are encountering more dissent, they are escalating to "Climate Emergency",  State of Emergency always being the arm of decision for totalitarians, cue the state propaganda arm to present kabuki theater on Telescreen,  while the coup de tat goes down behind the curtains.

Edited by Dougie93

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Surely we can use governments to help create and support policies to help protect the environment but the lead has to come and start with we consumers and the businesses that serve us. We have to on an individual level want to change our consumer habits and lifestyle choices we take for granted. Using the pretext of caring about the environment to increase taxes to try cover the rampant over-spending by the Liberals is cynical manipulative politics at its worst. We can and should become more aware of the environment and find  ways to deal with the pollution we are causing such as stopping the unnecessary and rampant use of plastics, facilitating the use of patents that provide alternative energy, incorporating more alternative energy technology, using only recyclable materials when possible. Encourage those changes through tax incentives not a tax whose revenue will not be used for such efforts.

 

 

 

Edited by Rue

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1 hour ago, Rue said:

Surely we can use governments to help create and support policies to help protect the environment but the lead has to come and start with we consumers and the businesses that serve us. We have to on an individual level want to change our consumer habits and lifestyle choices we take for granted. Using the pretext of caring about the environment to increase taxes to try cover the rampant over-spending by the Liberals is cynical manipulative politics at its worst. We can and should become more aware of the environment and find  ways to deal with the pollution we are causing such as stopping the unnecessary and rampant use of plastics, facilitating the use of patents that provide alternative energy, incorporating more alternative energy technology, using only recyclable materials when possible. Encourage those changes through tax incentives not a tax whose revenue will not be used for such efforts.

Don't be naive, Canada is a Company Town run by parochial entrenched interests solely to their own benefit.  It's not really a free country, it's a plantation.

The flawed structure of the Confederation itself precludes any meaningful change, it's a tyranny of elitist pseudo aristocrats.

You should embrace an environmental catastrophic epoch, only then will the needed chaos ensue, for vengeance to be rained down upon the authoritarian liberal elites.

Nothing will change until there is a revolution, and that wont come until there is an extreme crisis, so this extreme environmental crisis is a gift.

You're not actually going to fix anything with governments, it's a silly fantasy, people are in denial.

None the less, could see the elites hang from the lampposts in the process, so just ride the wave.

You've always been doomed, you were never going to live forever, we are only here for a brief moment in time, life is but an adventure.

The best you can hope for, is to see your political enemies burn in a fire of their own making, fetch the marshmallows.

Edited by Dougie93

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I mean, the Eco-Bolsheviks just released another alarmist report which asserts that civilization itself will be destroyed by 2050.

If this is going to hit that hard and fast, there's going to be a global war as nations turn on each other in desperation.

And it won't take long for that to go thermonuclear, so according to the Climate Scientists!, there's no future, so don't worry, be happy, kick back and enjoy the final act.

That's clearly what these liberal elites are doing, obviously a carbon tax is not going to have any effect on a civilization destroying planetary epoch already upon us.

So they are just stealing money to prop up their perks and prerogatives in the meantime.

Not much you can do about a planetary epoch, but you could at least see justice done, when the masses turn on the elites and execute them for their constitutional crimes.

Bring on the guillotines, wot?

Normally I wouldn't favour the Terror as a model, but since civilization only has thirty years left anyways, what the heck, let the masses have their due.

Edited by Dougie93

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5 hours ago, Rue said:

Surely we can use governments to help create and support policies to help protect the environment but the lead has to come and start with we consumers and the businesses that serve us. We have to on an individual level want to change our consumer habits and lifestyle choices we take for granted. Using the pretext of caring about the environment to increase taxes to try cover the rampant over-spending by the Liberals is cynical manipulative politics at its worst. We can and should become more aware of the environment and find  ways to deal with the pollution we are causing such as stopping the unnecessary and rampant use of plastics, facilitating the use of patents that provide alternative energy, incorporating more alternative energy technology, using only recyclable materials when possible. Encourage those changes through tax incentives not a tax whose revenue will not be used for such efforts.

 

 

 

The third world is the greatest polluters in the world. Go after them and leave Canadians alone. Canadians have done more than their fair share to help and try and save the environment. The big polluters in the world are China and India as examples. Hello out there in la la land. 

I do not like it when I go to restaurants where they now use paper straws. Soft drinks don't taste the same anymore. The pop tastes like cardboard. Plastic is better. Support the use of plastic straws. :D

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14 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

The best you can hope for, is to see your political enemies burn in a fire of their own making, fetch the marshmallows.

And who are those political enemies?  The communists?  I have seen it all - socialist parties,  democratic parties, labor parties, green parties, conservatives and liberals and I also remember a time when in a small country we had no less than 45 different parties, all trying to get to power.  It is always the same - masses who become poorer and disillusioned and those few on top who never have enough and need to take more.

But in simplistic terms , it is about space, food and feeling on top of it all.  If the human population grows, regardless of political order, the final results are the same.

If I had to pick enemies, it will not be based on politics or parties.  I would look for those who consume too much an dump their trash in the bush, the river or the ocean.  I would look for those who have too many kids; those that burn unnecessarily too much fuels, those that have decided to stock up on precious stones and minerals, destroying the environment to satisfy their madness, I would go after those who continue to hunt for rare large animals of which there are very few left; those that want to live over land too large for them.  Those that create the conditions under which mountains of raw materials are transported over the oceans, to get processed and returned as goods. These will be my enemies.

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8 hours ago, cougar said:

And who are those political enemies?  The communists?  I have seen it all - socialist parties,  democratic parties, labor parties, green parties, conservatives and liberals and I also remember a time when in a small country we had no less than 45 different parties, all trying to get to power.  It is always the same - masses who become poorer and disillusioned and those few on top who never have enough and need to take more.

But in simplistic terms , it is about space, food and feeling on top of it all.  If the human population grows, regardless of political order, the final results are the same.

If I had to pick enemies, it will not be based on politics or parties.  I would look for those who consume too much an dump their trash in the bush, the river or the ocean.  I would look for those who have too many kids; those that burn unnecessarily too much fuels, those that have decided to stock up on precious stones and minerals, destroying the environment to satisfy their madness, I would go after those who continue to hunt for rare large animals of which there are very few left; those that want to live over land too large for them.  Those that create the conditions under which mountains of raw materials are transported over the oceans, to get processed and returned as goods. These will be my enemies.

My enemies are the speech banning, gun grabbing totalitarian enemies of American freedom which is embodied in the Declaration of Independence preamble and associated light of civilization itself.

No force in history has done more to advance the human condition than American freedom, to include for the poor and disillusioned, the reason they were poor is disillusioned in the first place being because they were not free, did not have property rights and so could not secure any other right after.

I don't pick enemies, they pick themselves when they set out to undermine freedom, usually  in the name of some collectivist totalitarian post scarcity utopia.

In terms of people consuming resources, that's not a deliberate attack on my freedoms, so that's not a casus belli, and making war on that would be pointless, that's the sort of thing these totalitarian collectivists do, that's not my doctrine.

If you go down path of making war on people for non partisan, non ideological reasons, that's how you end with scapegoats, and then you attack innocent people who were just trying to make their way in this world, and probably wanted American freedom too and so were your allies not your enemies.

Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, extremism in the defense of the "environment" is an utopian crusade which leads to Malthusian mass liquidations of innocent people, usually ethnic minorities and Jews. International Socialism and National Socialism are two sides of the same totalitarian post scarcity utopian coin.

America is the only free country, they are the only ones who defend freedom, if America falls, all is lost, but we'll take those bastards with us when she goes, they'll never drink a drop from the Mississippi, Launch on Warning, DEFCON One, better dead than Red.

Edited by Dougie93

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