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Your still bogus claim that because Israel's "state policy" does not include targetting children, is still as bogus as when you made it, because it isn't stated doesn't mean it's not done.

prior to Abu Ghraib the US said they do not condone torture as policy, but, hell it was going on!

I'm sure if it's state policy and not juts some hate inspired propaganda, you will have no problem finding the proper governmental paperwork

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B'TSelem

I think some reading needs to be done by some of the rabidly blind Israeli supporters here.

Those who are critical of Israel's actions in the Occupied Territories do not by default condone the use of terror on the side of the Palestinians. What a baseless argument.

Yes, in fact, you do. This is "your side" the people you have chosen to support, the cause you are behind, and you choose to not care or not say anything whenever they commit blatant murder. In fact, you choose, whenever anyone condemns them for their bigotry, their violence, their ignorance or religious fanaticism, for commiting blatant murder, for targeting children, to rush to their defence, often with scattered, unsupported allegations about things you don't like about Israel.

You support terrorist acts commited against civilians, including women and children.

You just don't have the guts to say so.

Also, calling folk Israel haters and anti-semites really does NO justice to anything you argue for. It's old and worn out - try talking FACTS instead.

It sums up your unquestioning, unthinking, open ended support for the war against Israel, and for any acts, however vile, any statements, however bigoted or racist, that "your side" chooses to employ.

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Making your whole arguement as bogus still, as it was when you initiated it!

Repeating your propaganda doesn't make it true, so far you have not substantiated any of your bogus claims.

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B'TSelem

BTW - while this Micky show is probably pretty questionable - it is no different to air this and tout is as the norm as it would be to out Fallwell or Robertson - or goodness be - Phelps! as the norm of the American style Christiandom.

Two wrongs don't make a right - but blindly judging all by the worst of their lot is a big mistake.

Also, calling folk Israel haters and anti-semites really does NO justice to anything you argue for. It's old and worn out - try talking FACTS instead.

yes, but , name calling is the bastion of the weak.

so I like to see , the levels, some posters will stoop to as it makes the picture of them, that much more clearer.

That they can't use reason, or rational, facts or logic, that they stoop to manipulative rhetoric and name calling, or propoganda, ooops, the very thing they are decrying.

Or defending bigotry, religious fanaticism, extreme mysoginy and violence against children - because you don't like Jews.

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Or defending bigotry, religious fanaticism, extreme mysoginy and violence against children - because you don't like Jews.

Or defending bigotry, religious fanaticism, extreme mysoginy and violence against children - because you don't like Arabs?

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Good grief Scribbles, with your cut and pastes one would think you'd be a pro at using a search engine:

IDF used Palestinian girl as human shield in Nablus

Just one of the recent ones where children are targeted and used.

Go to it now.

We're not speaking about an individual doing something, and then being caught and punished. When an attack is made on a school, or a pizza shop, that is organized at a high level, and the organization itself, be it the PLO or Hamas, is deliberately selecting civilians to attack. There is no question of this being just some idiot who did something against the will of the organization. Nor is there any question that Palestinians support attacks against Israeli civilians. Many polls have found that suicide attacks against civilians enjoy very high levels of support.

When Israel starts bombing markets and restaurants of no military value with no military targets you can then make your claim to equivilency. Until that happens you are simply excusing terrorism against the people you don't like.

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Making your whole arguement as bogus still, as it was when you initiated it!

Repeating your propaganda doesn't make it true, so far you have not substantiated any of your bogus claims.

LOL!

funny.

You a: have not backed up your own arguements. You say it is not stated policy, wow, of course it isn't, I said actions speak for themselves Bt'selem is filled with stats, you have the link, check it out for yourself.

b: actions speak for themselves, therefore recounting actions based on statistics doesn't qualify as propoganda.

would you like some links to read up on propagnda???

I'll give you an hint, that piece you posted on brokeback mountain was a pretty good example and I explained why, already, hope that helps you?

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Argus said:

When Israel starts bombing markets and restaurants of no military value with no military targets you can then make your claim to equivilency. Until that happens you are simply excusing terrorism against the people you don't like.

They cannot make an equivilency because there isn't one. Strange how these two creatures seem to find the whole situation a LOL matter. I wonder if they would find it so funnyy if there on the receiving end of a Palestinian child bomber or a rocket attack bet they wouldn't be laughing then.

Notice they still have not condemned the MM propaganda could it possibly mean the silence mean they condone it - nah say it isn't so.

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Interestingly, was this the video, that CNN would NOT play because of "translation" issues??

In other words bogus translation, via MEMRI, that if CNN actually played it, they would look totally incompetent and unprofessional.

Because if it got widespread coverage, many, many people would catch the mistranslation and then CNN, would lack credibility.

If this is the case, which, it looks like it is, why am I not surprised!

LOL

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ONE word was suspect and turned out to be correct anyway. CNN caved and is covering up because one Arab guest complained. And this makes this video and teaching of hatred for Jews okay - still no condemnation of this - very telling indeed.

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Oh Oh suspicions confirmed !!

http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=sub...had&ID=SP150807

In the past few months, Islamists engaged in "media jihad" have increased their efforts to expose as broad a Western audience as possible to their jihad films, which purport to document the growing success of the mujahideen in Iraq and Afghanistan. As part of this endeavor, they have posted jihad films on popular free video-sharing websites such as YouTube, LiveLeak, and Google Video, hoping that such films will tip public opinion in the West against the war in Iraq and Afghanistan - thus pressuring Western governments to withdraw their troops from these countries.

As part of the campaign to foster anti-war sentiment among Westerners, and more specifically among Americans, a member of the Al-Mohajroon Islamist website with the username Al-Wathiq Billah instructed mujahideen in how to infiltrate popular American forums and to use them to distribute jihad films and spread disinformation about the war.

The following are excerpts: [1]

"Raiding American Forums is Among the Most Important Means of Obtaining Victory in the Fierce Media War… and of Influencing the Views of the Weak-Minded American"

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ONE word was suspect and turned out to be correct anyway. CNN caved and is covering up because one Arab guest complained. And this makes this video and teaching of hatred for Jews okay - still no condemnation of this - very telling indeed.

actually, it appears it was more then one word.

nice downplay though!

since, we don't actually KNOW what was said, because of false "translation" therefore we can't KNOW what was actually said.

Given MEMRI's track record?????................................

grain of salt to the whole thing!

perfect example of propaganda, appeal to emotion to cause an emotional response, completely seperate from rationale.

Bah!

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So now "common knowledge" is your source. I'm not denying anything, I'm just very suspicious, particularly when there are no names, dates, places or sources attached to these pictures which supposedly speak for themselves.

And as I said to you, if you want to play the reasonable doubt argument, you better be prepared to provide the same proof for every one of the premises you put forth. You can begin by saying how you know FOR A FACT that what Mickey Mouse said was translated without bias, accurately, and if he was even taken from a Palestinian TV show. I'm all ears.

For the record, I believe the pictures were Israeli children and Mickey Mouse was Palestinian. I just find your approach incredibly weak and I'm pointing that flaw out to you.

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,

So now "common knowledge" is your source. I'm not denying anything, I'm just very suspicious, particularly when there are no names, dates, places or sources attached to these pictures which supposedly speak for themselves.

And as I said to you, if you want to play the reasonable doubt argument, you better be prepared to provide the same proof for every one of the premises you put forth. You can begin by saying how you know FOR A FACT that what Mickey Mouse said was translated without bias, accurately, and if he was even taken from a Palestinian TV show. I'm all ears.

For the record, I believe the pictures were Israeli children and Mickey Mouse was Palestinian. I just find your approach incredibly weak and I'm pointing that flaw out to you.

You want proof but you provide none yourself. You believe, that's it. Pretty damn arrogant. You have a habit of doing that. I have looked at several pages of your search. Not one from a MSM source. Why is that? Perhaps they have come to the same conclusion as CARD, that the pictures are deliberate propaganda from an organization with an agenda of its own. Perhaps they just can't conform the source to their satisfaction and that the pictures actually represent what people like you claim.

The mouse is Palestinian and it's antics are a product of Hamas itself. The children may well be Israeli but that doesn't make their actions Israeli policy or that they are sanctioned by the Israeli government. We have plenty or rogue organizations in our own country who don't represent the feelings of the majority of their fellow citizens or the policies of our government. The Anti Poverty Committee in your own city is a good example. They are despised by many of the people they claim to represent, their antics serve to alienate the rest of society and do more harm to those people than good. Has it never occurred to you that the persons who made those pictures could have the same intent? No, because you chose to accept them at face value because they fit your predjudices.

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The mouse is Palestinian and it's antics are a product of Hamas itself. The children may well be Israeli but that doesn't make their actions Israeli policy or that they are sanctioned by the Israeli government.

That doesn't make their actions Israeli policy? Um, who then was dropping the bombs?

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Concerning the translation of the Mickey video - there certainly does seem to be some problems. (Sort of reminds me of the yellow patch thing with Iran a while back - which of course was BS).

Here, from the Guardian:

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/brian_...under_fire.html

"Though Memri claims to be "independent" and maintains that it does not "advocate causes or take sides", it is run by Yigal Carmon, a former colonel in Israeli military intelligence. Carmon's partner in setting up Memri was Meyrav Wurmser who in 1996 was one of the authors of the now-infamous "Clean Break" document which proposed reshaping Israel's "strategic environment" in the Middle East, starting with the overthrow of Saddam Hussein."

The author of the piece above makes some very good points about MEMRI, whose track record and bias is quite well known.

Another shorter piece wrt this whole exercise in blatent propoganda is here:

"Horrifying news from Palestine - a Hamas Mickey Mouse is telling Palestinian kids to "annihilate Jews"! Or not. In fact - after running on a wide range of media, few of whom I suspect will bother to correct their story - this story was independently quickly exposed by several sources, such as Angry Arab, Ali Alarabi, and Brian Whitaker; MEMRI (the Israeli secret services-linked outlet that provided it) made the mistake of providing a video allowing any Arabic-speaker to confirm their mistranslations. With just a bit of spin, the kids' show in question was turned from merely propagandistic to verging on Bond-villain-esque:

* nqāwim, "we will resist", is rendered as "we will fight";

* biṭuxxūnā l-yahūd "the Jews shoot us", is rendered as "we will kill the Jews" (!);

* 'astašhid "I will be a martyr" as "I will commit martyrdom" (I don't think that's even an English expression, but never mind);

* 'ustāđiyyat al-`ālam, literally "professorship of the world" (in context, they clearly mean being at the intellectual forefront of the world), is rendered as "masters of the world".

When challenged on the translation of "biṭuxxūna l-yahūd", the ex-colonel in Israeli military intelligence who runs MEMRI, Yigal Carmon, apparently resorted to insisting that because "yahūd" (Jews) comes at the end, it must somehow be the object! ("Even someone who doesn't know Arabic would listen to the tape and would hear the word 'Jews' is at the end, and also it means it is something to be done to the Jews, not by the Jews.") It is rather difficult to imagine someone running an organisation dedicated to translating Arabic being unaware that subjects in Arabic commonly follow the verb (especially when a pronominal object suffix (-nā "us") is present, as here)."

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ANYTHING, and I mean ANYTHING from Memri, should be taken with a grain of salt, if not outright rejected.

The fact that CNN, wouldn't show it, and they along with most MSM spew more BS then I can personally keep track of, indicates to me it was so replete with falsities, if they would be shown the clip/video translation, they would have shown themselves to be so OBVIOUSLY incompetent, they decided against it, in order to save themselves some fleeting semblence of credibility.

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The mouse is Palestinian and it's antics are a product of Hamas itself. The children may well be Israeli but that doesn't make their actions Israeli policy or that they are sanctioned by the Israeli government.

That doesn't make their actions Israeli policy? Um, who then was dropping the bombs?

I thought the subject was the children signing bombs. No one would argue that Israel doesn't use bombs.

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I knew it, its all just a big misunderstanding, and all these http://www.openfire.us/blog/archives/image...ld-abuse-73.jpg little jihad children are simply misunderstood. Just little HaMasKateers that's all.

Either way, they are still using a children's icon to preach the usual "death to the zionists"

Strange how some people are falling all over themselves to side with terrorists

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Whole lotta condemnation on this board when both sides teach their kids to hate and both are equally appalling. Which is better, the open KKK member who stands up and declares what he is, or the coward who pretends to like a people and comes to a message board to anonymously declare their disdain?

IMO, both are bad and both are dangerous. Just in different ways.

But BCChick, the concern is not about hypocrisy.

I certainly wouldn't equate indoctrinating children to become future suicide bombers....to a "stand-up guy."

If you would insist to justify this indoctrination of children to blow themselves up taking as many casualties as they can....then equate it with something similar in scope.

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I thought the subject was the children signing bombs. No one would argue that Israel doesn't use bombs.

Wilber, what is this, you did the same thing earlier when I tried to show you how weak your argument is when you ask me for first-hand knowledge of the pictures of Israeli children yet you believe everything MEMRI tells you.

All I was trying to do was show how faulty it is to base an argument on denial when presented with proof and you accused me of wanting proof without providing any when I clearly stated at the bottom of my post that I am not denying the Mickey Mouse ordeal, but rather, demonstrating the flaw in your argument. Do you really not understand me or are you pretending?

I will not use innuendo to make a point since it seems to go right over your head.....

These children are signing bombs.

The bombs are being dropped by the Israeli army.

Hence, the same way you accused the Palestinian children of showing Hamas policy, you are forgetting that the children here are also showing Israel policy.

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* nqāwim, "we will resist", is rendered as "we will fight";

* biṭuxxūnā l-yahūd "the Jews shoot us", is rendered as "we will kill the Jews" (!);

* 'astašhid "I will be a martyr" as "I will commit martyrdom" (I don't think that's even an English expression, but never mind);

* 'ustāđiyyat al-`ālam, literally "professorship of the world" (in context, they clearly mean being at the intellectual forefront of the world), is rendered as "masters of the world".

Very intersting. As you mention, the same thing was done to Iran. I remember not just one, but a couple of instances when they misconstrued the words.

When challenged on the translation of "biṭuxxūna l-yahūd", the ex-colonel in Israeli military intelligence who runs MEMRI...

Enough said.

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Hence, the same way you accused the Palestinian children of showing Hamas policy, you are forgetting that the children here are also showing Israel policy.

You have shown no evidence that having children sign bombs is Israeli government policy. The mouse cartoons are the creation of the Hamas government of Palestine. They are the first to admit it.

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But BCChick, the concern is not about hypocrisy.

I certainly wouldn't equate indoctrinating children to become future suicide bombers....to a "stand-up guy."

If you would insist to justify this indoctrination of children to blow themselves up taking as many casualties as they can....then equate it with something similar in scope.

Are these children being taught to value human life? No, they are being that the ends justify the means and that loss of human-life is an unfortunate aspect of this struggle.

I'm sorry, you're right, there IS a difference. Palestinian children are being taught to blow themselves up while the Israeli children are being taught that it's okay to drop bombs on hospitals, schools, bridges and roads just to get to the bad guys.

HUGE difference. Sure.

(sarcasm off here)

Edit, I just want to add that glancing back at my post I realised that my first paragraph is unclear who I'm talking about - Palestinian children or Israli ones.

I rest my case.

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